Saw 11 - Will It Ever Happen?
After "Spiral" failed to make a significant dent at the box office or excite critics, many people presumed the "Saw" franchise had inadvertently caught itself in one of its deadly traps. However, the back-to-basics "Saw X" proved there may be more games to be played in the future, and "Saw 11" has a bigger chance of happening now than it did several years ago. "Saw X" also re-establishes that the movies are stronger when they focus on John Kramer (Tobin Bell) and his story rather than follow his numerous apprentices or Jigsaw copycats.
"Saw 11" and the franchise faces one major challenge, though: It killed off Kramer in "Saw III." This leaves the question of how many prequels can the series realistically do before the inevitable cul-de-sac in the narrative arrives. In the horror genre, retcons aren't out of the ordinary, and popular series like "Halloween" and "The Exorcist" have had their respective histories rewritten, or wiped out entirely. Yet, it would feel strange if "Saw" took a similar approach. Despite the convoluted nature of the tale at times, it does at least make sense when it is unraveled.
With that said, let's look at the possibility of "Saw 11" happening — or if John Kramer has set his final trap already.
Why isn't Saw 11 happening yet?
The WGA (Writers Guild of America) and SAG-AFTRA (Screen Actors Guild – American Federation of Television and Radio Artists) strikes dominated the entertainment industry headlines in 2023. Both unions came together to negotiate better deals for their members, as writers and actors downed tools until agreements could be reached. As part of the union rules, the members cannot work on or promote current or new projects while the strike is ongoing.
The WGA and AMPTP (Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers) agreed on terms mere days before the release of "Saw X." However, it's unlikely anyone involved in the production was discussing the future of the franchise at that point. Simultaneously, after the poor performance of "Spiral" at the box office, chances are that "Saw X" was a test-the-waters experiment to see if the audience still wants more of the franchise — and a firm decision should be made about potential sequels after taking into account the streaming figures as well.
For "Saw 11" to continue down the prequel road, it will also require the return of actors Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith to play John Kramer and Amanda Young respectively. Unless they signed multi-film deals, or have options in their contracts (which is highly probable here), they will need to negotiate new terms for further films when the actors' strike officially ends.
What the producers have said about a sequel
Hindsight is 20/20, and longtime "Saw" executive producers Mark Burg and Oren Koules wish they could take back one decision from earlier in the series: Both producers believe the decision to kill off John Kramer in "Saw III" might not have been the wisest one in retrospect. Although, as Koules told Entertainment Weekly, it might have been difficult to continue for so long after the audience finds out about Kramer's illness. Even in "Saw X," it's obvious that he isn't getting better and his time is severely limited.
Burg and Koules have also been coy about the status of "Saw 11." Speaking to IndieWire, Burg said: "We're superstitious, so we've never talked about the following 'Saw' until the previous movie opens. So if this movie works on October 2, we'll sit down. We left it open-ended, and I want to see what happens next."
In terms of its opening weekend, "Saw X" arrived in second place in the North American market, failing to defeat the indomitable "PAW Patrol: The Mighty Movie." Despite succumbing to the puppy power, "Saw X" still made $18 million in the domestic market, which is nothing to sniff at, and could push Burg and Koules to consider another installment.
What Kevin Greutert has said about Saw 11
Kevin Greutert is no stranger to the franchise, having directed 2009's "Saw VI," 2010's "Saw 3D," and "Saw X." He also served as an editor on seven films and as an executive producer on "Spiral." Needless to say, the filmmaker understands the "Saw" timeline better than most, knowing full well when it will be the right time to pick up the ball and go home once and for all.
For Greutert, he treated "Saw X" as a last hurrah to Kramer; however, he acknowledged how it might not be the end of the franchise as a whole. "Well, we'll just have to see what the future of 'Saw' is," he told The Hollywood Reporter. "There are so many directions we could go, but for me, there's no obvious one coming out of this film. I really wanted it to feel like a kind of final send-off for the Jigsaw character, but never say never."
Much like executive producers Mark Burg and Oren Koules, Greutert also said that killing off John Kramer so early on impacted the potential of future movies. However, he added how the original intention was for the series to be a trilogy, so it made sense why Kramer went when he did and how it served the story being told at the time.
Despite the positive reviews, Saw X wasn't a huge box office hit
The "Saw" franchise isn't exactly what anyone would call a critically acclaimed franchise. Up until "Saw X," the highest-rated installment on Rotten Tomatoes was the original — 2004's "Saw" — which holds a 50% critical approval rating. So, imagine the world's surprise when "Saw X" opened with a "fresh" label and received 79% approval from reviewers. Jacob Hall of Slashfilm called it "a bloody good time" — an opinion that was shared by the fans, who responded to the film with much enthusiasm.
Despite "Saw X" being the best-reviewed film in the franchise, it didn't become the highest-grossing installment — in fact, it's not even close to the top. It was profitable — making $93.5 million worldwide from a $13 million budget — but it's a far cry from the glory days of the franchise. It is also only the third "Saw" film to not break the $100 million mark at the box office, beating only the pitiful records of "Spiral" and "Saw VI."
While it's unlikely anyone involved in "Saw X" presumed it would break "Avengers: Endgame" or "Avatar" numbers, it might give the filmmakers something to ponder about for future films. The volatility and uncertainty of cinema releases could see subsequent sequels find a home on streaming platforms rather than risk it in theaters.
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What could be explored in a sequel?
Considering the critical and fan acclaim, it only makes sense for "Saw 11" to go back in time to the period between "Saw" and "Saw II." As "Saw X" reveals, Amanda Young and Detective Mark Hoffman (Costas Mandylor) are already John Kramer's apprentices here, and further films show he has a host of others doing his bidding during this era too. Kramer is well aware that his time is almost up and the work must continue without him, so a possible storyline could focus on him training his disciples to take over.
Alternatively, "Saw X" leaves a narrative thread open for exploration. While Kramer is conned by Cecilia Pederson (Synnøve Macody Lund) and her cohorts, the scammer insists that her father — Dr. Pederson — is capable of helping Kramer cure his cancer if he lets her go. Kramer refuses — for obvious reasons — but both he and Amanda acknowledge the video interviews of Dr. Pederson and his medical claims are legitimate.
It's clear Amanda cares for Kramer deeply and she may take it upon herself to try and find Dr. Pederson as the last roll of the dice. She could turn to Hoffman for assistance, and this is where Hoffman's nefarious nature could be exposed as he kills the doctor before he can help Kramer. In fact, "Saw 11" could go a long way in establishing Hoffman as the true villain of the franchise.
Alternatively, the focus turns to another character
The ending of "Saw X" sees John Kramer and Amanda Young handing over a bag of money to the young Carlos (Jorge Briseño), who showed he was prepared to suffer to save Kramer in one of the torture traps. Many commentators have speculated that Carlos could be the one to lead the franchise going forward since he showed selflessness that left a mark on Kramer.
The Hollywood Reporter suggested that a sequel could take place in the current-day setting where Carlos is an adult and carrying out Kramer's vision. It's an interesting angle to consider, especially since it affords Carlos the chance to do things differently. In "Saw X," the young boy doesn't come across as malicious or harbor a particular lust for violence. In the same film, Kramer already shows moments where he questions his methods of changing the world and trying to make people appreciate life through death traps, and Carlos could be his last chance at some form of redemption.
At the same time, the series is called "Saw" for a reason — and without violence, it will be nothing more than an episode of "7th Heaven." So, if this path is chosen as a potential story angle, there would need to be someone trying to impede Carlos' plan and stirring up trouble. Fortunately, there are many troublemakers in this franchise. If all else fails, though, just send Kramer into space like "Jason X."
Who would star in Saw 11?
The casting for "Saw 11" depends largely on the storyline direction. If it decides to take a page out of "Spiral" and ignore John Kramer, anyone can fill out the cast. Learning from previous mistakes, though, it's advised that the producers do everything in their power to get Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith back for more carnage since the two make a tremendous team in "Saw X."
In terms of Bell, he has gone on record to say there's a lot of depth to Kramer's character, and it's something that draws him back to the role. More recently, he said that he believes "Saw X" to be one of the best stories in the series and that's what appealed to him as a performer. "When I first read the script, I was very impressed with it," Bell said. "It was in very good shape, very tight. The casting has been wonderful, so we have a good film here."
After such a positive experience with the last film, it's more likely that Bell will say yes to "Saw 11," especially if it continues to be as character-driven as before and explores Kramer's story even more.
What fans have said about another sequel
While most "Saw" fans watched all the sequels, there's no disputing many were left disappointed by the later ones like "Jigsaw" and "Spiral." However, "Saw X" won them over by focusing on John Kramer again. Taking to Reddit, the community debated over the possible direction of "Saw 11," with the majority agreeing it should be another prequel and have Kramer front and center once more.
A Redditor wrote: "They cracked the code with this one. These characters and their stories are what people want and [it's] what the studios should be focusing on. If they decide to follow this with a 'Spiral 2' or 'Jigsaw 2' I'll be damned. Those were mere failed attempts to revive the [franchise] regardless of what you [thought] of them."
Another fan urged caution in terms of expectations, citing actor Tobin Bell's advancing years as a concern. The commentator also said the powers-that-be have shown they will continue without Bell, so it's always possible they may follow suit again and exclude him from future movies.
Could James Wan and Leigh Whannell return for Saw 11?
Australian filmmakers James Wan and Leigh Whannell created the "Saw" series. In fact, it proved to be their big break in the entertainment industry as each of them has gone on to helm major films such as "Aquaman" and "The Invisible Man." Yet, the pair only worked on the first film together, with Whannell — who also plays Adam in "Saw" — returning to write the scripts for "Saw II" and "Saw III." For Wan, he explained how the original movie helped him tell the story he wanted to tell and he had no desire to return afterward.
Considering Wan and Whannell's standing in the industry, it would be quite the coup to see them come back for "Saw 11" — perhaps even as a swansong to the franchise they started. However, that's unlikely to happen at all. Even though they have executive producer credits on "Saw X," director Kevin Greutert revealed how he didn't have a single conversation with them about the creative direction of the film, saying they were supportive but uninvolved.
Similarly, executive producer Mark Burg confirmed to ComicBook.com that neither Wan nor Whannell had seen the film before its premiere.
The producers want to focus on Detective Hoffman again
After John Kramer's death in "Saw III," the series is largely carried by Detective Mark Hoffman, who is revealed to be one of Jigsaw's apprentices. Hoffman possesses more of a sinister edge than Kramer, wreaking havoc and rigging the games throughout the films — in essence, deviating from Kramer's original plan and becoming more of a harbinger of death.
The detective makes a cameo in the mid-credits scene for "Saw X" and also serves a purpose in the main story as Kramer makes a call to him for assistance in finding out more about his scammers. According to the executive producers, Hoffman's appearance is entirely intentional as they would like to feature him once again if the opportunity for "Saw 11" presents itself.
Much like "Saw X" dives deeper into the relationship between Amanda Young and Kramer, a sequel could do the same for Hoffman and his mentor. "So one of the tricks in this movie that we wanted to show is that he's been dealing with Detective Hoffman for a long time," Oren Koules told Dexerto. "So when he's been ahead of everybody — and knows things that people are doing — it's a little nugget for the fans to realize that he's been talking to Detective Hoffman a lot earlier than we previously saw him in a movie."
Regardless, the series doesn't have many more movies left
Not many franchises receive a trilogy, never mind 10 films. Even in the horror genre, which is traditionally more sequel-friendly than others, "Saw" stands head and shoulders above its brethren. The fact there's even a discussion about "Saw 11" happening is remarkable. What's clear, however, is that this current iteration of the franchise is on its last legs.
"Spiral" tried to continue the story without John Kramer and it failed spectacularly, while "Saw X" remedied the problem of a Jigsaw-less story by setting it early on in the proceedings. Yet, even the executive producers know there's only so much mileage left in this timeline. With Kramer having terminal cancer, they might be able to get one movie (or two at a stretch) out of this current continuity; thereafter, it will become too unbelievable to fathom.
Realistically, "Saw" will need to be rebooted in some way or another. This presents a problem that "A Nightmare on Elm Street" knows all too well — will it be successful without its lead star? Tobin Bell is tied to the part of Kramer like Robert Englund is to Freddy Krueger. Without him, it might never be the same or draw the same level of interest from the audience. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the story is reaching the point where it could be game over for the franchise.